The Count Down Begins
I have exactly one more month till I leave. I just want to kick and scream, "I'm NOT going back." But I kind of have no choice. I am only here on a visitors visa and I have to take my sorry ass back to Palestine next month. I can't help but feel, uhh, helpless.
I try to enjoy every single minute that I am here. Even when I have nothing to do or no where to go, I close my eyes and try to savor that feeling because I know it will end in a month. After I get back and settled in at home, my "I don't want to leave the house" syndrome will hit. Here I am shopping, going to the cinema, bowling, dancing, mini-golfing, eatting out atleast every other day. There are things to do, places to go, people to see.
In Nablus, I put my self under house arrest. I am not comfortable hanging out, people don't even "hang out" in Nablus. Having fun has become a sin. I can imagine things are even worse now. When people are dying everyday and you are living under occupation, having fun, well, thats out of the question. It would just be rude and disrespectful to smile, to eat out, to do just about anything enjoyable under such circumstances.
So, since I don't have much more time left, please excuse me, I'm gonna go take a walk around the block. Its drizzling today but living life to the fullest, well, thats been my motto and always will be. I hope I can do this in Nablus one day.
posted by Palestinian Princess @ Monday, July 10, 2006
78 Comments:
Princess: Enjoy New York for me too, please. I miss it (moved out several months ago).
For some quiet nature (and it is quiet mid-week during the summer), I suggest to you my favorite place in New York: Enter Central Park at 76th street, turn left at bottom of entrance ramp/road, and bare right immediately after walking across the bridge. Take a hard right at the bottom of the semi-paved hill...cross the picturesque garden bridge into the Ramble (look left fro that brodge for a great weeping willow over pond photo opportunity). You may want to bring binoculars for the wildlife you may catch a glimpse of. (Please don't stay too late...it get's weird there)
Note: When you are on the bridge, looking towards the lake, you will see a large Rock/boulder in the water in the distance...wind your way through the Ramble, keeping the shore line on your right, to get to this rock, and enjoy the extremely public solitude and priceless view of Park and Central Park South. Continue about 50 yards past the Rock, and yo will find a wonderful mini-waterfall/stream whose gurgling water is a wionderful discovery.
Take a mental snapshot of this place and return there in your mind when escape is needed but not physically at hand.
Peace upon us all.
Bruce W. (New Jersey)
Oh yeah...enter at WEST 76th street that is.
Bruce
...and the bridge that you can see the "Rock" from is the first (larger) bridge, not the second more picturesqe one.
Bruce
Heh, my heart breaks to read what you just wrote. This is a semi joke but hey I am sure you can easily get married to somebody here ;)!
Don't go back to Nablus. Your family may think you were corrupted in the godless US of A, going places, eating Freedom Fries, dressing immodestly and maybe even drinking beer somtimes. As an Israeli I know all kind of sad stories about liberated palestinian females and their frustrated male relatives. Good luck.
Well I personally think she is much much more useful here and she can do more to help palestenians here than in Nablus. What do you people think?
So glad to get all your comments again. Had a good walk and just came back from Borders Bookstore (got some design books just in case your curious!).
About my brothers, hahaa... They are crazy guys, we even party together. I don't know what kind of Palestinians you are talking about, but many of my friends are just like me. We are traditional and hold high morals (I think, hahaha) but we know how to have fun too.
I'm not looking to get married any time soon, I have too many things on my mind. :)
just noticed your blog and am interested to read it - being on the other side so to speak - we moved to gush etzion from canada last year - you can see our thoughts at shermansinisrael.blogspot.com
Hehehe well i was saying to get married fictually you know ;)! Hehehe.... But yeah the thought of getting married scares the shit out of me too! :)
So Lucy and Alex, when is the wedding? I know a great outdoor spot in the park. Enter at West 76th and...(:
Bruce W.
hahahaha that is funny :) but hey a jew and a palestinian. That is progress right? If my gf sees this she will kill me lol! :)
Bruce, I am working in Bay area right now, it is better to get married by the golden gate bridge ;)
Why dont you try to stay in the US ? Is that so dificult...?
In a way you can be considered a refugee since right now for a number of reasons you do not feel very confortable being forced to go back to nablus.
Hi Lucy, this string of comments made me laugh :) I am Egyptian-American and one of my best friends is Israeli-Jewish...he used to always joke that the way to make world peace is to make all the Arabs and Jews to get together and have babies, because no one would want to kill their own relatives. :)
Lucy: stay, illegally or legally. Stay. Do not go back for awhile. When the crazys stop killing each other get back. It is not worth it........form this Jewish, pro Israel and Por peace person
You guys have me laughing so hard! But the Palestinian-Jew marriage would be interesting! And I think the theory of intermarriage leading to peace is totally worth exploring!
Ahhh, wow! Does anyone here know of anyone that is in a inter-religious/intercultural marriage?
My brother is, and I was just wondering what your thoughts were.
Well I am very open to inter religious marriage thing. I was actually considering it. In general I am very open-minded person in general. Currently my gf is japanese.
I know two people (my personal very good friends) who stayed in this country this way :).
So Lucy are you ready to stay here? I am sure we can find you a husband real quick, the catch is as soon as you do find him to delete all these posts as the almighty INS will be on your back.
I was laughing so hard about Bruce's posts that all the people I work with thought I was crazy there for a second. :) Reading this blog is definately more fun than writing c++ code.
Does anyone here know of anyone that is in a inter-religious/intercultural marriage?
Adam Shapiro and Huwaida Araf, two of the founders of the International Solidarity Movement.
My wife is Colombian and was not Jewish when we met but she is now. I have a strong sense that, like many of Spanish heritage, she has some Jewish ancestors, seeing how easily and seemingly naturally she embraced Judaism & its traditions and how effortless it was for her to learn the hebrew alphabet (she mastered the names, looks and sounds of the letters in one week--I am still stunned when I think about it). Although born Catholic (and her father is pretty devout), her parents separated when she was young, and her mom focused mostly on the notion of the all-knowing unseeable G-d, and did not give divine status to any humans, so she was more like the other two monotheistic traditions to begin with.
By the way, I am now reading a biography of Maimonides (aka RamBam), the most important Jewish Rabbi and thinker of the last thousand years, who was born in Cordoba Spain, traveled through Morocco and ultimately settled near Cairot where he ultimately became Chief Physician to Saladin's vizier's Court in Cairo. I mention this because in the book it describes the Golden Age of Muslim controlled parts of Spain in the late Eleventh Century, where Muslims, Jews and Christians lived not just in the same country but in harmony and with fairly free exchange of ideas (before fundamentalist Muslims came from Morocco/Algeria region, I think it was, and ruined for everybody with forced conversions to Islam and intolerance. I pray for a world such as that to return. But for now, I'm sad to have to say that the idea of a Jewish/Palestinian marriage is too fraught with recent pains to be tenable, except for some very strong and rare couples who could deal with a high degree of ostracism on both sides of the aisle. It would have to be super-ultra-never-seen-before love to survive it without growing bitter and weary. Like the line from Fiddler on the Roof says, "a bird and a fish can fall in love, but where will they build a home"?
Then again, there are one or two species of fish who live mostly out of water and there are birds that can dive for many minutes at a time, so there's always hope, especially if you can afford two homes!
Bruce W.
Oops. The URL for ISM is:
http://www.palsolidarity.org/
Bruce,
I have to say I disagree with what you just wrote. Exactly this kind of thinking is what causes close-mindness in the current society. I am not trying to offend or anything, I just dont agree with your point of view.
I remember reading, that back in the day, during the black and white segregation in US there were still mixed marriages....
The way that it looks to me, even though Lucy affiliates herself with Palestine she does so more because it is her home country and that is where her ancestors lived and not because she is a muslim (in fact i think she mentioned she is a christian). I am a secular jew, I respect other people's religious decision and let's say if my wife is a christian I would respect that and all her traditions and would never force her to let's say become jewish. I would expect the same thing from my wife not to push me to convert into christianity. I know a lot of people whose parents belong to different religions and they live happily.
All I am trying to say is that, if people are not ultra religious then the difference in religions should not matter.
I don't think we disagree much, if at all, Alex. People need to do what is comfortable for them, in every aspect of life. In personal/adult relationships, forcing anyone to do anything is of no use and is a recipe for disaster. My point was that at this particular & sad moment in history, the idea of Jewish/Palestinian marriages are more frought with difficulties than most other multi-cultural couplings that I can imagine. (From the long-view of cultural history, however, they also have peculiarly much in common, which in my view is what makes the current conflict so heartbreaking).
Bruce
ok,
sorry for misunderstanding you, but don't u think that this kind of marriage is maybe something that is missing. Maybe if there were more marriages like this, there would be no conflict?
I am also sure that in Israel, there are Israeli/Palestinian marriages.
Hey Lucy what's your thought on this?
See I told you it would not take this long :) Lucy, if you dont mind I will start the pre-screening process here...... hehehe just kidding
Lucy,
Do NOT stay here illegally. If you stay illegally for even a day, you can't come into the country for 3 years. If you stay 6 months or more, you are barred from entering the country for 10 years. Don't stay illegally...it's not worth it.
Dude we are just kidding here :)! I am sure she is smart enough to know that it is not a good idea.
As far as I am aware palestinian citizens married with israelis cannot move to israel.
ZNet | Activism
Israel's Marriage Ban Closes The Gates To Palestinians
by Jonathan Cook ; May 25, 2006
In approving an effective ban on marriages between Israelis and Palestinians this week, Israel's Supreme Court has shut tighter the gates of the Jewish fortress the state of Israel is rapidly becoming.
The judges' decision, in the words of the country's normally restrained Haaretz daily, was "shameful". By a wafer-thin majority, the highest court in the land ruled that an amendment passed in 2003 to the Nationality Law barring Palestinians from living with an Israeli spouse inside Israel -- what in legal parlance is termed "family unification" -- did not violate rights enshrined in the country's Basic Laws. And even if it did, the court added, the harm caused to the separated families was outweighed by the benefits of improved "security".
Israel, concluded the judges, was justified in closing the doors to residency for all Palestinians in order to block the entry of those few who might use marriage as a way to launch terror attacks. Applications for family unification in Israel invariably come from Palestinians in the occupied territories who marry other Palestinians, often friends or relatives, with Israeli citizenship. One in five of Israel's population is Palestinian by descent, a group, commonly referred to as Israeli Arabs, who managed to remain inside the Jewish state during the war of 1948 that established Israel. As there is no principle of equality in Israeli law, human rights groups who challenged the government's 2003 amendment were forced to argue instead that it violated the dignity of the families. Mixed Israeli and Palestinian couples are not only unable to live together inside Israel but they are also denied a married life in the occupied territories, from which Israeli citizens are banned under military regulations.
Most of the judges, however, seemed incapable of grasping this simple point. In an earlier hearing, Justice Michael Cheshin suggested that mixed couples wanting to build a family "should live in Jenin", a Palestinian city in the West Bank besieged by Israeli military armour. Cheshin again demonstrated an other-worldly logic this week when he justified the majority view of his colleagues: "Beyond this [measure] stands the state's right not to allow residents of an enemy country to enter its territory during time of war." The problem is that the Palestinians are not another "country", enemy or otherwise; they are a people who have been living under Israeli military occupation for nearly four decades. As the occupying power, Israel is responsible for their welfare, though it has happily passed on that burden to international players with deeper pockets. And the suggestion that the Palestinians, who have no army, are waging a war against Israel, one of the world's strongest military powers, expands the idea of war into the realms of doublespeak. Palestinians are resisting Israel's occupation -- some violently, others non-violently -- as they have a right to do under international law.
Few observers in Israel, however, believe that their government passed the law in 2003 on security grounds. Of the 6,000 Palestinians given residency rights in Israel during the Oslo period, a tiny number -- only 25 -- have been questioned on security-related matters, according to figures the government reluctantly published during the case. How many of this number were actually involved in attacks has still not been clarified.
The real reason for the law is to be found elsewhere. It springs from the same impulse that prompted Israel to "disengage" from the 1.3 million Palestinians of Gaza last year and is now spurring the government on to "consolidate" its West Bank settlement blocs behind a wall designed to annex Palestinian land but not the Palestinians themselves.
The ban on marriages and the drawing of final borders share a single guiding vision: one of maintaining Israel as a Jewish state with a "massive Jewish majority", as former prime minister Ariel Sharon phrased it shortly before the Gaza withdrawal. Until it was amended, the family unification provision in the Nationality Law offered Palestinians in the occupied territories the sole route to Israeli citizenship. But if Israel is building its walls to establish an expanded Jewish state, an ethnic fortress, it is hardly going to leave the back door ajar to let Palestinians achieve what Israelis regard as a right of return, through marriage, to Israel.
The interior ministry has done much to fuel a demographic and racist hysteria by inflating the figures to suggest that more than 100,000 Palestinians from the occupied territories have gained Israeli citizenship through marriage in the past decade. In fact the real number is a few thousand.
If the judges were too embarrassed to admit that demographic concerns prompted the amendment to the Nationality Law, few others in Israel have been as reluctant. A Jerusalem Post editorial this week admitted the government's security arguments for the law were "weak", observing instead: "Israel is openly threatened with annihilation -- not just physically, by a potential Iranian nuclear capability, but demographically, by Palestinian claims of a 'right of return'." Yoel Hasson of the ruling Kadima party hailed the court's decision as "a victory for those who believe in Israel as a Jewish state", while the immigration absorption minister, Zeev Boim, added: "We have to maintain the state's democratic nature, but also its Jewish nature. The extent of entry of [Palestinian spouses] into Israel's territories is intolerable."
The government's ban on family unification between Palestinians and Israelis is currently a temporary measure (of three years standing) but that is likely to change now that the court has given the law its blessing. This week justice minister Haim Ramon vowed to establish a new Basic Law that would permanently block entry to Palestinians, as well possibly as other non-Jews.
This is in line with the recommendations of the government-appointed Rubinstein Committee, under the chairmanship of Israel's foremost constitutional law expert Amnon Rubinstein, which has been preparing an immigration policy for non-Jews. In its report, issued in February, the committee proposed draconian limitations on non-Jews' rights to Israeli citizenship through marriage. (All Jews, meanwhile, will continue to qualify for citizenship based on another piece of legislation, the overtly discriminatory Law of Return.) According to Rubinstein's recommendations, Palestinians and inhabitants of "hostile" (read Arab) states who marry Israelis (read Israel's Palestinian citizens) will be banned from rights to either citizenship or residency in Israel.
Other non-Jewish spouses (read mainly Europeans and Americans) will face age and income requirements and be expected to affirm a loyalty oath -- not to Israel, but to Israel as a Jewish and democratic state. In keeping with current policy, non-Jews are unlikely to receive citizenship but may be eligible for residency rights. As one seasoned Israeli observer, Shahar Ilan, commented in Haaretz: "It is doubtful that there are many issues that elicit such broad consensus in the [Israeli] political system as that of closing the gates to family unification [of non-Jews]." Such changes will make Israel unlike any state we have seen in modern times. In 1980, at the height of apartheid in South Africa, the courts there refused to approve legislation much like Israel's ban on family unification, arguing that it contravened the right to a family life.
In Israel, on the other hand, faced with a new wave of racist legislation, no one -- not even the country's "liberal" Supreme Court - is prepared to safeguard the most basic rights of the land's native people.
Jonathan Cook is a writer and journalist based in Nazareth, Israel. His book, "Blood and Religion: The Unmasking of the Jewish and Democratic State", is published by Pluto Press.
Same kind of laws exist throughout European Union. Try marrying someone from Danemark, for example. I know you'll blame Israel for Solar eclipse as well, but think for a moment: If life in my country is SOOO BAD for Arabs, why are they seeking to enter it so desperately?
if all the palestinians run away... will palestina ever exist?
i was there... and i want to go back...
I was going to mention that recent news story about the (in my opinion) racist Israeli marriage law.
Well, well, when arab antisemites are being accused of being the ones they laugh the idea out telling that we're one race - semites. Now then - what kind of racism you're talking about, buddy? Any other country could restrict immigration - except of mine, right? Talking about racism: what is "black african" in Arabic - "Abd", right? Nice day to you all:)
Hi Palestinian Princess,
Do you think you could apply for refugee status in the States? Seeing how people with blood on their hands are actually waltzing into Europe and U.S.A claiming persecution in Egypt,Syria or Lebanon, Im sure immigration would not be too difficult!
I think she should do that too!!!!
Isn't that nice when so many people care about you :)?
I understand Palestinians who are hesitant to seek refuge outside their country. It gives Israel more chances to establish so called Jewish majority.
A state based on ethnic/religious dominance can't be truly democratic. It's a lop-sided democracy for Jewish people only.
I've met Palestinians who speak fluent Hebrew, know religious Jewish holidays and customs but are still considered second class because they are non-Jews.
It's hardly worth listening to one of Zionist arguments that countries like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan were proclamed to be Muslim countries. They are not considered to be democracies, are they?
Another thought...If let's say countries like Russia or Ukraine which still boast a significant number of Jews proclaimed to be Christian countries and limited Jewish people in their residency and other rights( they used to have such laws many years ago though) we would hear immediatly about anti-semitism. Aren't we talking about double standards than?
I often hear another argument for establishing a pure Jewish state. It tells us that such state is needed in case Jewish people on other countries are faced discrimination or persecution. So Jews are encouraged to "return" to Israel which is supposed to be a heaven for them.
American and Canadians Jewish people "returning" to Israel contradict this idea because in these countries Jews enjoy 100% same rights as all other people.
So those Americans and Canadians put themselves in grave danger of being killed/maimed by suicide bombers/resistance fighters (depends on the perspective) for the sake of protecting democratic Jewish state.
If it was a state fo all people regardless of their religious affiliation wouldn't security issues became not such an issue? And improving the standard of living not only of olim hadashim but also of gazans and west bankers created a truly democratic state and removed hatride and reasons to commit acts of terror from both sides
To all of you
:http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
Go to the art. "Singing out of the flock", which as of july 12 is the second art. after "enemies that need each other"
Hey anonymous,
I am truly impressed by that blog, especially look at that entry about Gilad Shalit. This really gives a different perspective, I think all palestinians should read this.
MY GOOOOOD, WHAT DA HELL IS HIZBULLA DOING? http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150885976658&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
I am really really really sad today, I do not think there will be peace any time soon :(
to alex and to evrybody: Pass the following around:
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
Go to the art. "Singing out of the flock", which as of july 12 is the second art. after "enemies that need each other.
Hi anonymous,
Excellent blog and I would love to pass it around.
Palestinian Princess,
First of all, I'm flattered you'd like to stay in my country; thank you for such a nice complement. Most ME Arabs don't think too highly of the USA, so its rare to hear from one who does.
Secondly, with the current crisis going on in Gaza, you might try to apply for an extension on your visa. Avoiding an active war zone seems a viable reason for granting said extension, worth a shot. No penalty for asking the question after all.
Good luck, and I hope you visit often.
Later
"Most ME Arabs don't think too highly of the USA, so its rare to hear from one who does."
tater, thats a joke, MOST M/E Arabs like America, however, detest the one sided policies of the American Government.
Big Big difference here
Anon (@ 7:45)
Just my perception, based on the numerous blogs I read, and the years I've spent in the ME. Was in the Gulf War, stationed in SA, Kuwait, Bahrain, and Egypt over the last 14 years. With the obvious exception of Kuwait, didn't meet a lot of Arabs that thought to highly of the USA. They were always respectful and cordial to me however, but didn't have a lot of nice things to say about my (our?) country.
Note the vast majority of my time in the ME was under the Bush Sr. & Clinton administrations. Neither known for being harshly against Arabs.
Again, my personal perception, if you have evidence to the contrary, I'd enjoy reading it. Quite frankly, I'd appreciate being proven wrong as my opinion of Arabs is fairly high.
Later
if you and your cousins just stopped murdering Jews for a while the Israeli soldiers might be able to leave, I am sure they have no desire to stay in your trd world shithole city of Nablus , the only thing you produce is idiotic suicide bombers and other shitheads
You expected what, the Arabs would welcome you with flowers and candy?
You were an occupying army of a country that waged war on Iraq for violating UN resolutions
(while doing nothing against Israel's violations)
Neither known for being harshly against Arabs
You're kidding, right?
Funny thing there Abu Shaar, some of them did welcome me with flowers and candy. But I was not referring to how they viewed me, but how they viewed the USA.
As for Bush Sr, many Arabs liked the fact that he formed a coalition of most Arab nations in the region, and forced Saddam out of Kuwait.
As for Clinton, many Arabs approved of his handling of the Oslo accords and his attempt to make a permanent peace between Israel (Barak) and Palestine (Arafat) in late 2000.
So I guess I'm not kidding, are you?
Later
Hi Lucy, just a quick meesage to say how much I have enjoyed reading your blog. We see a lot in the news about the Palestine/Israel situation but rarely hear from someone who has first hand experience.
You seem like an intelligent and level headed person, and I'm sure that if more people thought like you the world would be an infinitely better place.
I have been reading the comments, and about your return home. I'm in the UK and things are different here, but a lot of things are similar one of which is that if home has become a warzone you can apply for an extension.
Anyway, good luck to you and your family.
ps: I found you via Blogher
if you and your cousins just stopped murdering Jews for a while the Israeli soldiers might be able to leave, I am sure they have no desire to stay in your trd world shithole city of Nablus , the only thing you produce is idiotic suicide bombers and other shitheads
That's not constructive.
i dont know how many days you have left abroad..........enjoy them..............we are at war. I am sorry Princess....I am really sorry.....more war, more destruction, more pain for everybody...........Your jewish-israeli loving lady who thinks we need more people like you.........hope some day we can visit...........You are a real Princess............
babe....i know where u r in nablus
Appeal to both the working class of Palestine and Irsael that is the only way to change this shit.
Israel Invades Gaza. That is in response to an attack from Gaza that killed two Israelis and wounded another, who was kidnapped and brought back to Gaza ...which, in turn, was in response to Israel's targeted killing of terrorist leaders in Gaza...which, in turn, was in response to the indiscriminate shelling of Israeli towns by rockets launched from Gaza.
Of all the conflicts in the world, the one that seems the most tediously and hopelessly endless is the Arab-Israeli dispute, which has been going on in much the same way, it seems, for 60 years. Just about every story you'll see will characterize Israel's invasion of Gaza as a continuation of the cycle of violence.
Cycles are circular. They have no end. They have no beginning. That is why, as tempting as that figure of speech is to use, in this case it is false. It is as false as calling American attacks on Taliban remnants in Afghanistan part of a cycle of violence between the U.S. and al-Qaeda or, as Osama bin Laden would have it, between Islam and the Crusaders going back to 1099. Every party has its grievances--even Hitler had his list when he invaded Poland in 1939--but every conflict has its origin.
What is so remarkable about the current wave of violence in Gaza is that the event at the origin of the "cycle" is not at all historical, but very contemporary. The event is not buried in the mists of history. It occurred less than one year ago. Before the eyes of the whole world, Israel left Gaza. Every Jew, every soldier, every military installation, every remnant of Israeli occupation was uprooted and taken away.
How do the Palestinians respond? What have they done with Gaza, the first Palestinian territory in history to be independent, something neither the Ottomans nor the British nor the Egyptians nor the Jordanians, all of whom ruled Palestinians before the Israelis, ever permitted? On the very day of Israel's final pullout, the Palestinians began firing rockets out of Gaza into Israeli towns on the other side of the border. And remember: those are attacks not on settlers but on civilians in Israel proper, the pre-1967 Israel that the international community recognizes as legitimately part of sovereign Israel, a member state of the U.N. A thousand rockets have fallen since.
For what possible reason? Before the withdrawal, attacks across the border could have been rationalized with the usual Palestinian mantra of occupation, settlements and so on. But what can one say after the withdrawal?
The logic for those continued attacks is to be found in the so-called phase plan adopted in 1974 by the Palestine National Council in Cairo. Realizing that they would never be able to destroy Israel in one fell swoop, the Palestinians adopted a graduated plan to wipe out Israel. First, accept any territory given to them in any part of historic Palestine. Then, use that sanctuary to wage war until Israel is destroyed.
So in 2005 the Palestinians are given Gaza, free of any Jews. Do they begin building the state they say they want, constructing schools and roads and hospitals? No. They launch rockets at civilians and dig a 300-yard tunnel under the border to attack Israeli soldiers and bring back a hostage.
And this time the terrorism is carried out not by some shadowy group that the Palestinian leader can disavow, however disingenuously. This is Hamas in action--the group that was recently elected to lead the Palestinians. At least there is now truth in advertising: a Palestinian government openly committed to terrorism and to the destruction of a member state of the U.N. openly uses terrorism to carry on its war.
That is no cycle. That is an arrow. That is action with a purpose. The action began 59 years ago when the U.N. voted to solve the Palestine conundrum then ruled by Britain by creating a Jewish state and a Palestinian state side by side. The Jews accepted the compromise; the Palestinians rejected it and joined five outside Arab countries in a war to destroy the Jewish state and take all the territory for themselves.
They failed, and Israel survived. That remains, in the Palestinian view, Israel's original sin, the foundational crime for the cycle: Israel's survival. That's the reason for the rockets, for the tunneling, for the kidnapping--and for Israel's current response.
If that history is too ancient, consider the history of the past 12 months. Gaza is free of occupation, yet Gaza wages war. Why? Because this war is not about occupation, but about Israel's very existence. The so-called cycle will continue until the arrow is abandoned and the Palestinians accept a compromise--or until the arrow finds its mark and Israel dies, G-d forbid.
Princess, I'd love to go shopping with you in Ramallah, but until this conflict dies down, maybe getting an extension on your visa on humanitarian grounds is a good idea?
Don't let all the negativism of some of the posters get you down--sooner or later the desire for peace will reach critical mass. Let's just hope its in our lifetimes...
Sarit in Jerusalem
Mort,
Interesting diatribe...
Think of the Gaza pullout as more of a distraction, a trick every magician knows well "while you look at this hand I'll be doing something else with my other". While soldiers were dragging 'settlers' kicking and screaming out of Gaza...others were building that wall...no, not on the border but in some cases miles into the West Bank and in the process taking huge chunks of land and or cutting off entire communities. While there may not have been actual Israelis in Gaza they are under their watchful eye, at the borders through gun scopes, shooting anything that got too close, on the sea in patrol boats and in the air by F-16's flying low at the speed of sound to create terrifying sonic booms.
Would you feel 'free' under those conditions?
You speak of the arrow of violence: the arrow was actually released by the audacious idea that European Jews could simply create a Jewish state in Palestine without any opposition from the people actually living in Palestine at the time (who by the way were Jews, Christians and Muslims).
'The Arabs' as you call them rejected the plan to give half of Palestine to the European colonizers because first of all the idea was ludicrous and secondly while the Jewish population of Palestine was only 15% they were going to be awarded 55% of the land!
Does that sound fair to you?
While military historians debate who actually started the war in 1948, you will realize that the other Arab speaking nations surrounding Palestine were not only ill prepared to organize an attack on the U.S. backed Israeli army but weren't even in a position to defend themselves! What we are seeing today is simply a continuation of that war of 1948. Without saying it, Israel admits that through it's refusal to allow the return of Palestinian refugees to their homes and lands located in what is now considered Israel. As stated in the UN charter that "all peoples have the right to return to their homes upon the cessation of hostilities". By Israels refusal they are declaring this war continues.
The only true solution, the only way to peace in Palestine is through the peaceful dismantling of Israel as a political entity and the re-unification of Palestine and all it's people, yes, including the European colonialists and their descendants.
Reasonable people must demand a FREE and United Palestine!
Abu-Issa
Anyone who thought Israel "left" Gaza just wasn't paying attention.
Oh, and Princess, you might want to turn on the comment moderation function.
Abu-Issa,
It is funny how people change the facts to show that they are right. The war of 1948.... Back then US did not support Israel one bit and yeah you are talking about an army? Israel did not even have one...... in '48. get your facts straight!
Alex,
Am I to understand that you agree with the rest of my comment then?
The United States was an emerging world power after having saved the day during WWII...and yes they DID support Israel. Which country was the first to officially 'recognize' Israel?? Let me save you the work of looking it up: The United States of America.
Israel indeed had an army in 1948 (does Yishuv ring a bell), with what did they defend themselves so bravely against the drive of the barbaric 'Arabs'...and who was it that drove out 800,000 Palestinians and bulldozed their villages?
Facts are facts...I've proposed a solution to end the circle of violence...what say you?
Abu-Issa
abu-issa,
I dont agree with what you are saying as I have read different things about the war of independence.
I do not agree with your solution about dismantling Israel. Dream on that will never happen....
What I think the solution to this problem is, first the violence needs to be stopped (this means Israeli and palestinian), then both parties need to sit down and settle their differences in a peaceful fashion.
I really liked what O'Reilly said last night (even though I dont like him), he said if palestenians, hizbullah, and Iraqi terrorists lay down their arms the fighting will stop, if Israel lays down its arms there will be another holocaust! Brilliant words!!!
I have been to Israel in 96 and 97 and I remember the time when Israelis and Palestinians lived side by side peacefully. I believe this can happen again.
Abu-Issa - Israel belonged to the Jewish people before the word 'Palestine' was ever invented, ruled by Kings such as David and Shlomo. These 'European colonisers' as you call them, are simply descendants of the original residents. If anything it is the Arabs who have stolen the land.
Jane,
If you are going back thousands of years, why not evacuate the US and give it back to the Native Americans? Heck, it was only 300 years ago they were cleared from "their land" in North America...for that matter, give most of Europe back to Italy because for a long period of time it was under the Roman Empire, and return the lands of the East to the old Ottoman empire. Going back to the time of David to lay claims on the land in that region is as ridiculous a proposition as clearing out the US of anyone who is not of native american decendency. Times change, civilizations change, and boundaries. The answer is not to argue about who had the land "first" but to figure out how everyone now can coexist peacefully.
Princess: I hope when you return you will be posting more often! Enjoy your last couple of weeks in NY but I do miss your more frequent posts!
Anonymous - What claim to the Palestinians have to the land?
When was there ever an independant Palestinian State?
What was their currency?
Where was their Parliament?
Who was their first prime minister?
List some notable historic events between 1800 - 1850?
Name a leader before Yasser Arafat?
What claim does ANYONE have to land is my point. Land is mere space. Boundaries are fluid over time. Even the United States may not be a superpower in a few hundred years. Don't assume I am on the "side" of the Palistinians, whatever that is. The point is there are 2 populations and 2 cultures in that area that must learn to coexist in a fair and equal manner. That does not mean by firing missiles at one another and that does not mean by systematically destroying villages. Both "sides" of this conflict are, in my opinion, going through a shameful period of their own histories.
The only true solution, the only way to peace in Palestine is through the peaceful dismantling of Israel as a political entity and the re-unification of Palestine and all it's people, yes, including the European colonialists and their descendants.
...what exactly is the basis for this belief? Are you saying that the Palestians would just forgive the Israelis for the war crimes committed this last half century just because the state of Israel stopped calling itself a state?
Are you saying that the hatred among Palestians for what Israel is doing is 100.% (the period is a scientific notation meaning EXACTLY) toward the state called Israel, and not, you know, towards the people actually DOING it?
It sure would be a wonderful world if everyone would forgive transgressions as easily as you seem to think they would.
Here is my question. Do you think that the "State of Israel" is the problem? Then why were Jews murdered inside pre-1948 Israel? Why were Jews massacered in 1925 in Hebron? Was that because of Israeli aggresion? Opression? I might not know how to spell but I'm not an idiot! The violence has nothing to do with fairness, nothing to do with equality, nothing to do with 50% versus 15%, or with semantics - is it a state or not - or with any of the reasons that are given for it. It has to do with one thing:
What is so radical about one person one vote?
Princess, why so quiet since the 10th? Trying to ignore the horribleness that has come down since then? Understandable, but untenable for a blog that has had your exposure and stated purpose. You must have some thoughts to express?? Or are unhappy with the quality of commenters you have attracted?
Bruce
Jane,
Is it so offensive to you to believe that ancient Jews intermarried with Romans, became Christian...that some then converted to Islam...adopted Arabic as their language? All while continuing to inhabit the region which became known as Palestine? It has after all, been 2000 years...
No, Palestine was never an independant state, it never had it's own currency, there was no parliament but there were people in Palestine, yes, real people contrary to the Zionist scenario which claimed Palestine to be a "land without a people for a people without a land".
Those 'real people' living in Palestine (for the sake of this dicussion let's call them 'Palestinians') are decendants of the original inhabitants of that land...though they stayed on the land, endured occupation after occupation the latest by it's well meaning but mislead European cousins.
It's time for modern Israelites to admit to their mistake and join together with the Palestinian people to create a FREE and United Palestine.
Abu-Issa
Abu-Issa,
Are you saying that Palestinians are jews? Very interesting line of thought..... You made me confused!
Palestinians are Jews in the same way that modern Christians are Jews. The 3 monotheistic religions are all from the same source, why is it so hard to coexist? It makes me wonder why each group sees its closest cousins as more of a threat to its own existence than people with whom they have nothing in common. (such as chinese, who, from a population perspective, are more of a threat to the jews than either Christians or Muslims.)
Alex,
Yes, some Palestinians are Jews. Before the creation of Israel there were Jews living in Palestine...only 5% of the Palestinian population mind you.
My point is that in the last 2000 years populations change...develop...grow. The seed of what are today the people of Palestine were the ancient Jews, Canaanites, Philistines, etc. (Then later Arabs, European crusaders, and even the Turkish who occupied Palestine for 400 years added to the 'flavor' of what the Palestinian people are today).
Palestine in it's truest sense is a great 'melting pot' because of it's religious significance and geographical location. The ancient Jews arrived to the area from what is now Iraq...that was before their slavery in Egypt.
To assume that after the Romans expelled the Jews from Jerusalem they all got up and moved to Europe is at best a simplistic idea.
Abu-Issa
Abu-Issa,
I hope you know that jews always lived in that area no matter who was controlling it.
But as somebody said, if we start counting who was on that land first then with the same line of thought United States and Canada should be given back to the natives and so and so forth... you get the drift. Well now Israel is there and it is not going anywhere. So, the only solution is to co-exist!!!!!!!!!
Alex,
Of course I know Jews have lived in the area as far back as 3000 years ago, that was my entire point! :0)
Yes, co-exist! Exactly what I said as well. A Jewish state in Palestine however is not co-existing. Palestine is for all people and all religions. The longer the Jews insist on a Jewish state in Palestine...the louder the call for a Muslim state will be! And maybe in time the drums will start to beat again for a Christian state in Palestine...
I think you are starting to get my point and I'm thrilled!! In order to co-exist we need a FREE and United Palestine now!
Abu-Issa
Abu-Issa,
Sorry can't agree with you. I think that having two states but FRIENDLY states is better. Israel and Palestinians have different interests in the region and I think having them under one state would create more problems. So I do agree with you on co-existance but out definitions of co-existance are different.
Palestinians are Jews in the same way that modern Christians are Jews. The 3 monotheistic religions are all from the same source, why is it so hard to coexist? It makes me wonder why each group sees its closest cousins as more of a threat to its own existence than people with whom they have nothing in common. (such as chinese, who, from a population perspective, are more of a threat to the jews than either Christians or Muslims.)
Even worse (in the sense of hatred between even closer related groups) are the Sunni and Shiite Muslims of Iraq. And don't forget Catholics and Protestants.
But to me it seems like the reason is that in the case of unrelated religions such as Christianity and Hinduism (just to randomly pick two), a believer in one religion may think the other is wrong, but they wouldn't see the other religion as an insult to their own, as is the case with Christians, Jews, and Muslims (and even more so with Sunni/Shiites and Catholics/Protestants). And the feeling that someone is desecrating your religion is much more severe than someone simply believing something that's wrong; it's an insult. It's the difference between being off in your own little world and attacking someone else (at least, that's how it's perceived).
It's time for modern Israelites to admit to their mistake and join together with the Palestinian people to create a FREE and United Palestine.
Still waiting to hear why you think that would actually work (rather, that the "United Palestine" would survive the transition).
Just look at the US. Blacks were promoted to first-class citizens on par with whites (at least in the eyes of federal law) in the 1860s, but they continued to be terrorized for another hundred years (and even today racial tensions between blacks and whites exist, and passive segregation is still going strong). And that wasn't half as bad as an attempt to create a united Palestine would be, as there wasn't 50 years of bipartisan war, terror, and bloodshed.
Quantam,
The integration of African American's into mainstream society had (and continues to have) it's own challenges...I never said creating a FREE and United Palestine would be simple, but it is the ONLY solution.
After 58 years of trying to impliment the 2 state "solution" it's time to try something different.
I believe that only a madman would continue the same action over and over expecting a different result. It's time for a different approach.
Look at South Africa, they are still having bumps in the road but they are well on their way to having the White settlers integrated into the population. They are creating something that is far greater than either the Whites alone or the South Africans alone could have possibly accomplished.
Abu-Issa
Abu-Issa,
Yeah riiight. Go and read about South Africa and you will see how their economy went bust and the whole country is not doing so well nowadays. I will not even go into the reasons......
Could we also agree then that the Israeli economy would have 'gone bust' back in the 80's all on it's own if not for the billions of U.S. dollars being pumped into it's ecomony?
Let us end the fighting, stop this economy of war and build an enviable place both spiritually AND economically in a FREE and United Palestine!
Abu-Issa
My organization is hiring in the Mideast department. Can you get a work permit? We do institutional reform work and could use an Arabic speaker.
Well...if you could promise me I won't be disppeared, I'd behappy to visit you.
I can bring my guitar, and a bottle of tequila.
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