"Psst... She is Palestinian, so she hates Israel."
The latest news I heard from my friend, a visitor to my blog, Tomer, is that 'lil 'ol me HATES Israel and I am actually listed on "Blogs that hate Israel" page. I am seriously unsure of their logic as I am reporting happenings in my life, actual experiences of mine, and I have never once said that I hated Israel, I support Hamas, I want an all Palestinian state and I that I want to DRIVE Israeli's into the sea, so honestly, they are stupid and obviously haven't read my blog or corresponded with me, and if any of my nice Israeli web buddies see it, DO NOT BELIEVE IT... Anyway, if you have had correspondance with me and REALLY read my web page you would see that this is not the case at all...
I guess their logic instead is "well, she is Palestinian, she is talking about all of the things that effect her life because of the Israeli GOVERNMENT so she must hate Israel." All I can say is that the person who chose to represent my blog on that list should take a basic course in logic, and learn how to read for comprehension, because they are obviously stupid.
Ha, thats better.... Ok, comments please.
posted by Palestinian Princess @ Sunday, April 16, 2006
36 Comments:
Come on Lucy... I expected better from you.
I just found your blog in my periodical "let's read about one-sided people who hate Israel" browse. The truth is, you are pretty cool.. we don’t agree on a few points, but your blog and views are insanely sane, which I find refreshing.
If anything, he implied he think's your right about (many? most? some?) things, and that he was expecting to find a one sided Israel hater (or perhaps Jewish big-nose hater, but that's just in the comments), but instead was impressed by you. That's a compliment.
Eh, I'm just bitter and oversensitive b/c the rain we had today flooded part of our house...
I was just about to explain myself, then decided to read the comment above me...
Thanks for explaining myself. (I don't have such a big nose i don't think.. smaller than arab noses anyways)
Lucy, read what I said again, slowly and see what you think.
Your spelling?
Tomer,
re: Big noses -- I'm referring to a particular individual who occassionally forgot that he's (just) anti-Israeli and lapsed into cliched anti-Jewish stereotypes. Must be hard for him to keep his prejudices straight.
Are you being serious, Princess? You really DON'T hate Israel?
How come such blogs as "Raising Yousuf" and "Um Kahlil" are listed under your favourites?
sr, yeah i understood that after some back reading, the comments become more clear after the 2nd reading. I barely remembered any after the first
Who are you by the way?
Ok, Tomer, hahah, remember English was my foreign language at school, so if I am reading really fast/skimming I can miss things... Anyway, about the sites that are in my favorites, I like to read them, so I needed a place to keep my favorites straight I used the blog...
Just becuase I don't HATE Israel, doesn't mean I don't find what they are doing wrong. I think Hate is a super strong word, I dont hate anything, I can't... Thats too harsh for a gentle being like me, you know...
Im just a person how can I judge or hate anyone, thats not for me to do... But I can easily tell you where my justices are taken away, how I, among many are being mistreated, and how shit that goes on here doesn't go on in W. Countries as because it wouldn't be tolerated. I will not keep my mouth shut or rather my fingers from typing what I KNOWWWWWW is happenning to me.
And I know for a fact that those in Gaza have it worse than I do, so why would I take off "raising Yousuf" a young mom from Gaza... My cousin lives there and she says she stops counting the shelling shots from tanks after 250, yeah, this happens EVERYDAY, you know I guess it is intimidation, like we can CRUSH you, and I know Israel can come in here and take everything and kill everyone within a day if they wanted... And they haven't so how can I really hate them, I am alive and kicking.
The question here in my mind is not, how and when will the European and American Jews and all the other immigrants leave this land, rather its How the hell are they going to accept us indiginous people as equal citizens, or how are we going to split up peacefully and have the 69 borders and also Allenby bridge to Jordan so that we can have one free trade route not controlled by mighty Israel, do you understand, I just dont want my fate to rest in the hands of Israel, I would rather have my own people screw my life, atleast I can do something about it, but with Israel in control, and paranoid about EVERY Palestinian it kinda makes it hard to even get permission to drive my car to Ramallah, Im really getting sick of that shit you know.
You link to Um Kahil, which is one of the most vitriolic, hate-filled blogs that I've ever come across. And you're surprised that you're characterized as an Israeli-hater?
Lucy, I don’t think English was the problem so much as the words “Israeli hater” hit a nerve which sent your brain into overdrive… it happens to me too, it’s ok. Sometimes something set’s us off and we stop actually listening (reading) and just thinking about an answer.
I love Israel, it’s my homeland, my parents were born here, and some of their parents… ok so my great grand parents weren’t, I admit. Is what we are doing wrong? Some things are, some things aren’t… Just like the PA.
BUT what hurts me is to see people (blogs) mislabeling things. What do I mean… in
“Raising Yousuf” which is well written and sadly does not give me insight on what living in Gaza is like, but more insight mini al jeezera press releases about how many Palestinians died when. There aren’t as many personal stories as I’d hope (As in your blog) and the use of terms such as “uber warden” I am sure that Israeli soldiers/police/border guards are often not nice, harass and do terrible things… but many blogs try to claim this is policy, that the Israeli government does these things just to harass Palestinians and “security reasons” are all made up.
I’ve been a solider, 38 months in the army and some more in reserve. Non-combat but in the field, I can tell you I am scared shitless of Palestinians in roadblocks, I can tell you I hate it, I think what happens to a poor boy who’s ambulance wasn’t let across is HORRIBLE… but I can also tell you that a friend of a friend was stabbed while doing a routine security check, that weapons have been found in ambulances.
Honestly, you got the bad side of the deal, it’s no secret it’s easier for me to be Israeli… but do you really imagine that the soldiers (who are 19 year old kids, my brothers, my friends, my cousins, my neighbors, everyone I know) do you really imagine they are “uber wardens” that they make up security passes because they are bored… that checking lines of people slowly is much more fun than just letting everyone through then reading the news paper?
That’s what I’m saying… YOUR blog is different than so many blogs which ARE one sided, which list every day Palestinians injured but never Israelis… which list every day bad things the IDF does, but never the Hamas.
Wow, that was a lot….
Princess,
Just two questions:
1. Do you believe Israeili shelling would continue if they were to stop daily shelling FROM Gaza into Israel?
2. What exactly do you expect Israel to do in response to missiles launched from Gaza?
Not to say that I don't feel for innocents in Gaza, but in this case the blame does not lie with Israel.
Lucy,some will say you hate Israel simply because you are Palestinian and you won't leave "Judea and Samaria".
Abu Shaar,
Never met anyone like that
Well-said Lucy.
And Tomer et al, you have something to say, say it to my face on my blog. If you don't think I give you "insight" into Gaza, you are either 1) not reading it 2) reading selectively.
You know I don't even know what to say about your "made-up" comment. I wish we could play that reality TV show-"trading places"-and you could come life MY life or LUCY's lief for a week, then tell me what you know or don't know about checkpoints.
p.s. "uber warden" is a phrase coined by Amira Hass.
p.p.s. Tell me again, what is so "hate-filled" about Umkahlil's blog? I don't understand how you can so easily obscure the line between defending our rights and "hate".
Personally, as Lucy, I don't hate ANYONE. Hate is a strong emotion. I may hate the actions of a certain person, but never "hate" that person or an entire people.
And what is it about articulate Palestinian women that scares you?
I am Israeli and get accussed of obviously hating palestinians. I don't. I understand the sad predicament they are in ans sympathze with them. I disagree with my government's actions and also with civilian killings on both sides. Which leads to your next post- I am glad to hear a palestian say they disagree with the bombing. I know not all (or even most) palestians are pro suicide bombers but not everyone does.
So glad to see familiar names and a few new ones to my blog. Well, I just wanted to point out that I personally feel that any blog whether written by a Palestinian or an Israeli is worth looking into because it shows a piece of what that person feels and experiences every single day. Ofcourse, a lot of our attitudes are shaped by these experiences but and feelings are always skewed, because it is just that, a feeling. Some people take things to heart more than other things. For example, my professional job suffers because I can't leave the city to go to Ramallah to work (not because of the check point but mainly the reason that I will be traveling alone and if the checkpoints close or something wrong happens, I am not going to be able to get home, and stuff, its just not safe.) So in my life now thats the biggest issue, where for someone else, it can be the ANGER and RAGE they feel, when they see hummers enter the city and they go balistic and shoot the apple they were eatting at the hummer. Its just a personal feeling, when I see the Israeli soldiers enter the city, I get nervous but what the hell, it is really my life, I have to deal with it.
Ok, I think I am going off on a tangent here but my point is, there are different degree's of feelings over various issues involving the relations between Israel and Palestine within all of our hearts with both involved persons.
I don't think ALL Israeli's hate my guts, and I also KNOW that ALL Palestinians don't HATE Israeli's... But there are some issues that are strong pressed on both sides, but hopefully we will mvoe towards peace soon...
Wishful thinking...
What awed me when I went to Palestine was the strength of my hosts. Despite being shot at every day, their children murdered, hundred-year-old olive groves bulldozed, the daily humiliations at Abu Holi and Erez and Kalandia--where 18-year-olds pumped on testosterone and American made M-16s humiliated men and women just because they could, despite all of this and more, my hosts worked hard, fed their children and amazingly had hope for peace.
I am sick to death of expressions from Westerners and yes, Israelis too bemoaning the cycle of violence, as if an 18 month old child was shot in the head by a tornado or tsunami and not a bored soldier in Rafah. Hand wringers who are horrified by suicide bombers, but are not horrified when American made F16s bomb apartment buildings in Gaza City.
"Vitriolic?" "Hate-filled?"
Typical tactic of smearing hoping that it will stick.
Unfortunately for you, many Jews who are sickened by the occupation and have bothered to educate themselves about the conflict seem to find my blog quite to their liking.
I must be doing something right to engender such lovely epithets from anonymous.
Specific details please to back up the assertions you've made. It's really boring to suffer these blind Israel first, last, and always commenters...muddles the discussion, which is the intention, but also betrays a real lack of knowledge about the situation...I'll be posting from Walid Khalidi tonight about Zionist propaganda techniques from the initial period of Zionism...why don't you give it a read, dear commenter; educate yourself instead of resorting to the inevitable smear...in fact, his book, From Haven to Conquest: Readings in Zionism until 1948, is quite illuminating; a good primer for those who stoop to the insipid smear, and a good number of the essays are penned by early Zionists, who speak about Zionism no differently than it is portrayed on my blog.
As some people have confused me with the above who mentioned umkahlil's blog. I just went to read that blog, to see exactly what it was about.
I don't really care about the origins of the Jewish people, which seems to be the number one topic for some of the commenters on this blog. Whether Jews came originally from Mars or from Ramallah is as the Germans would say "egal."
After reading that statement I can say i will never know what her blog is about... since I don't care to read it.
It might be hate filled, or she might use the term IOF in a cute fuzzy way... I don't care.
Is that true? No.. actually i care very much, it makes me sad that some people only see one sided solutions and aren't even open enough to understand.
I could just say "I don't care about Palestinians, the Ottoman imported most of them after the Romans kicked out the jews and blahblah cival rights"
Again, that's why I enjoy reading THIS blog out of the sea of Palestinian options...
Laila,
You say "if you have something to say, say it to my face on my blog".
I did. My polite points were deleted, presumably because I am a Zionist (as is everyone who supports the existence of Israel).
Can I be forgiven for assuming that you are interested in propaganda more than in dialogue?
Umkhalil,
Don't kid yourself. People read your blog for a laugh or out of curiousity.
Your non-arab fans are neo-fascists and conspiracy theorists of various colours, such as Andrew Winkler and Rowan Berkeley.
Thanks, belated perhaps, for replying Palestinian on my blog. I did read, but I put it on the backburner in terms of thinking up a reply.
Im just a person how can I judge or hate anyone, thats not for me to do... But I can easily tell you where my justices are taken away, how I, among many are being mistreated, and how shit that goes on here doesn't go on in W. Countries as because it wouldn't be tolerated. I will not keep my mouth shut or rather my fingers from typing what I KNOWWWWWW is happenning to me.
So here we go. Starting with relevant material. The Left (which is analogous to Hamas) is using their power in our judicial system to steal people's property. So I do think it happens in the Western Countries. Especially in France and Australia where there is a campaign of intimidation going on, by Muslims. Here's the link.
Strategy of Rape and Intimidation
To be clear, I'm not saying you support it, but I am saying that things are going on in the West, that is as serious if not more serious than Israel going in Palestine.
To be honest, I do believe that what you say is happening. What I don't do, is draw the same conclusions that you do.
The conclusions I draw, is that Hamas uses Palestinians in this manner. They order their thugs to stay peaceful if the Palestinians are in control, but then start up violencei if they see Israel. This means, basically, that Hamas intends for Israelis to punish people like you, PP, in order for you to support Hamas or anyone like them.
If you want to truly stop the acts you've described, you must purge the Palestinians of people like Islamic Jihad and Hamas. But you don't have the organization nor the weapons nor the will to do so. Therefore it Will Not Stop, regardless of what Israel does to stop the violence.
My statement below in context in regard to commenters who were concerned about the origins of Jews. It reflects my concern that bickering over from where Jews originally came is not essential to the realization that the human and civil rights of the indigenous inhabitants were violated; again, read Khalidi, educate yourself instead of engaging in insipid insults and why trash Laila and me on Lucy's blog, anyway; why not address her post?
"I don't really care about the origins of the Jewish people, which seems to be the number one topic for some of the commenters on this blog [my blog]. Whether Jews came originally from Mars or from Ramallah is as the Germans would say "egal." It simply doesn't matter. Zionists, who came from all over the world to settle in Palestine with the purpose of establishing a "Jewish" state, beginning in earnest in 1897, violated the human and civil rights of the people who were already there. I do not like Zionism, and my dislike of Zionism has nothing to do with how I feel about Jewish people."
So, another strategy, tie up my time and energy answering allegations about quotes taken out of context? Why are Israel firsters so aggressive about trying to discredit anyone who advocates justice for Palestinians? I'm not the first, nor the last person who has been thrased...I consider myself in good company: Edward Said, Joseph Massad, Saree Makdisi, Hanan Ashrawi, just about anyone with any intelligence speaking to the issue, and note that I have written that I am not thrilled when any mother's child is killed, be it ardent Zionist or Palestinian. Why not quote that?
UmKahlil, I have no "stratagies" I am just a person, with opinions... I *AM* a Zionest meaning I believe Israel is the Jewish Homeland... I also believe Palestine is the homeland of the Palestinians. I'd like to end this conversation
a) Because as LailaUmYousuf has pointed out.. It should be done on your blog if at all, not on Lucy's which is rather free of this.
b) Because you keep labeling me as an "israeli firster" and I don't enjoy labels.
c) Because i never "trashed" or tried to discredit you. I disagreed with you and the way you write. I stated my opinion...
d) I just don't like you. Or the way you handle conversation.
Thank you for your time, maybe we will speak again in the future.
On the other hand, I *WILL* be reading LailaUmYousof's blog i think as i find she can have a proper conversation.
note: Lucy I apologize for all this spilling out into your blog.
Shlem, your sense of "dialogue" seems a bit skewed, to put it mildly.
regardless, I had comment moderation on due to a spate of unseemly comments at the time in question so, yes, your email, and many others, may have gotten overlooked in a sea of others (I do have other jobs than blogging you know)
and for God's sake, leave Lucy the hell alone, she can link to whomever she damn well pleases
Tomer: For the sake of Shlem's "dialogue", do engage Umkahlil. She brings up valid points. What do you "disagree" with her about in what she posted and what is so hateful about it? Do you think Israel should be exclusively for people of Jewish ethnicity?
Laila,
“IOF Murders teenager” - The army I am still a reservist in, I am a murderer…
“IOF Dances For Death” - I dance and rejoice at killing… it is my love…
“Ethnic Cleansers” - It’s one of the Ten Commandments.
“Stop Funding the Murder of Children” Yes, we also drink their blood during Passover.
[Sarcasm off]
Saying she doesn’t care about Jewish history. How about I stop caring about Palestinian history and maybe I just do the math “If we kill you all now, who will remember in 100 years…” Caring about the other side’s claims is what leads to peace… not caring is so much easier and what the radicals on both side are doing.
I'd rather not interact with someone who says i'm part of the IOF, i've never said she lived in Hamastan or called the PLO the PTO.
As for your question, I think Israel should be for people of Jewish background and minorities willing to live under that rule (Muslims, Christians, Druze, Charkesi, Samaritans)
And Palestine should be for people of Palestinian background and minorities willing to live under that rule. (Same groups)
I do not believe in 1 country for 2+ people. It didn’t work in Lebanon, in Yugoslavia in Northern Ireland or anywhere else…
I believe in 2 countries, in peace, with good economic and hopefully cultural ties. I believe in European tourists coming to a beach resort in Gaza then driving to party in Tel Aviv. Going to see holy sites in Bethlehem then archeology in Messada. I believe in fruit grown in the Galil exported as jam from Rafiach. I believe in doctors from Ramalah going to conferences in Eilat.
This is the future I like to imagine… sometimes I feel many people are busy imagining some other future where they are proven “right” and they "win" whatever that means...
Ymarsakar...in response to:
They order their thugs to stay peaceful if the Palestinians are in control, but then start up violencei if they see Israel. This means, basically, that Hamas intends for Israelis to punish people like you, PP, in order for you to support Hamas or anyone like them.
If you want to truly stop the acts you've described, you must purge the Palestinians of people like Islamic Jihad and Hamas. But you don't have the organization nor the weapons nor the will to do so. Therefore it Will Not Stop, regardless of what Israel does to stop the violence.
Your right... I think it is a way to fuel Palestinians to support hamas, but I do not agree with you on the second part much. Ok, we do not have the organization, or the weapons, but WE DO HAVE THE WILL...
You know the "thugs" you speak of, I WANNA RUN OVER THEM WITH MY CAR WHEN I SEE THEM (Ok, a bit much) but I can't stand them. They are really stupid. They are so stupid that if someone even says a word to them, they will shoot them dead.
So its not that we dont have the will, its just that if we say something we can easily be killed. Remember we don't have law enforcement (because Israel govt will not allow us to-so that sure doesnt help).
Anyway, when my dad was alive (mind you he was like 70 at the time of this incident), he went to our office building in the center of Nablus and he entered the elevator where these "thugs" were putting up posters (people killed by Israeli's or suicide bombers) and he told them "TAKE THAT DOWN" and they pulled a gun out on my dad...
They are really nuts, you cant reason with them... My friend was also slashed in the face by one of these gun carrying thugs because he got out of his car and told him to move out of the street because he needs to pass through...
ROLLS EYES... we need some law here, we have got to get these guys off the streets.
Laila,
For the record
1. My post did appear on your site. Then it disappeared. Therefore I conclude that it was deleted. Now your the comment section includes statements to the effect that I disqaulfied myself from the discussion because I am a Zionist, but not my responses.
2. These posts are relevant to Lucy's post. She can do what she likes for sure, but we can ask questions. I believe there is a contradiction in claiming not to hate Israel, but linking to sites designed to cause hate. Your site for sure falls into this category. Just to give you an example you ONLY talk about the empty football field which was shelled by IDF. You never reference the fact that Kassams shelled an Israeli field AND injured people on that field. You also never mention that IDF claims that the Gaza field was used to train terrorists and as a launch pad for Kassams.
Also your use of Nazi terminology like "uber-wardens" is another good illustration of your true colours. Let's have a smigen of reality here. Had you dealt with Nazis, there would be no Arabs in Palestine 60 years after the first victory of Israel.
Tomer, South Africa chose wisely not choose a "two-state solution", even though the Afrikaners, the architects of apartheid, wanted just that, as they could see their racialist enterprise heading into the dustbin of history.
Consider some of the arguments made at the time. God gave us this land! The blacks have the whole continent and they're running it into the ground!
They will slaughter us if we drop our guard!
Seems to me sheer demographics will soon force Israel into choosing between being a democracy and a "Jewish state".
One person. One vote.
Hahahaha... you should know what I got to put up with on various international forums when I say I'm Israeli. Not only do I "hate" Palestinians then (according to many posters abroad) I am also a murderer, a killer, I am the cause you and other Palestinians live in the circumstances you have to live in right now. It's all my fault....
So what? Did you ever hear a reasonable "accusation"? We, you and I (and others of course living in this land) are judged upon WHAT we are, not on WHO we are. And, even if someone tries to pretend an objective judgment of our behaviour, don't let that fool you: everyone is prejudiced because of the place we're writing from.
See: we've got more in common than is obvious ;-)
Stay well, I enjoy your blog,
Tsedek.
Shlem, I'm going to make thsi brief, Lucy's blog has been polluted enough:
I have no idea what you are referring to in comments section. I'm not responsible for what other people say there. its a forum.
2. Mine's not a wire service-its a blog and I give MY personal acount of what's happening in Gaza-not in Ashdod or Tel Aviv or Ashkelon. That said, I did mention a rocket feel on an Israeli stadium-but you obviously chose to ignore that. And can you please tell me how and why a stadium in GAZA CITY would be used to launch Qassams? They would sort of land in Jabaliya if they were...takes no genius to figure that out. As Gideon Levy mentioned, "launch pad" is another popular term created by the Israeli military establishment and adopted by the mass media.
And pray tell, what are my "true colors"? Heavan forbid I should want justic for my people.
and as I told Tomer before, Uber-warden-and yes, the term aptly applies, was first used by Amira Hass. You should read her sometimes, maybe you'll learn a thing or two.
finally to Tomer: So what will you do when the Palestinian Arab population in Israel exceeds the Jewish one, as is predicted to happen sooner or later? Will you adopt Leiberman's policies of transfer? Or will you simply atempt to mass populate empty areas of the negev and Galile that belonged to my husband and his family and thousands of other Palestinain refugees? Or will you impose Chinese laws that disqualify them from benefits if they give birth to more than one child?
Laila,
I'm going to make this brief, Lucy's blog has been polluted enough:
We can do this on your blog if you like...
If the population of non-jewish arabs and other non-jews exceeeds the population of Jewish Arabs and other Jews, you will see a change in the political landscape, just as in several american states where the hispanic population is in the majority. They are still Americans. There are no laws as you suggest even though, in the past, there were discriminatory laws.
As for the Negev and Galile, they are mostly state land and will, eventually, be populated.
I'm Israeli, work for a Palestinian NGO, yet still called a "Colonialist Occupier" on Bethlehem Bloggers by a commenter in the same week a commenter on my blog said s/he wished I'd suffocate so there would be less "stupid leftists" in Israel. I can't win, clearly!
Some people just prefer to stick us in little boxes, it makes it easier for them to dismiss/hate us all. Two fingers up in their general direction!
I'll accede on that point, Princess, that you do have the will. I'll take you at your word for that one.
About the being killed part, that's pretty much what I expected. I wish I had the solutions to the problems you have written about with such frankness and lack of dissimilitude, but it's not in my power to tell the Israelis what to do or how to do it. Not America would do that, we could not for example tell Israel to copy what we did in Afghanistan, and reconstruct Palestine.
I wish you a better life Princess, but that's all I can do.
So: where is this list of "blogs that hate Israel"?
I like your blog very much. It's nice to read about an inside perspective. We get so much of our information filtered through trash shows like Fox News...totally biased information.
I'm 1/2 Palestinian...my mom's family comes from Nazareth and Haifa.
Post a Comment
<< Home